Complementarian Values and the Titanic

Titanic - further thoughts

I am amazed that people are still retweeting John Piper's recent comments linking the Titanic Disaster with the benefits of complementarianism.

Here is the tweet for those who missed it:

'When the Titanic sank 20% of the men and 74% of the women survived. That profound virtue was not nurtured by egalitarianism.'

In my original blog I tried show the nonsense of linking this tragedy with either the defence of your theological position or the critique of an opposing one.

Here I want to consider a few more of the generally accepted facts of the Titanic disaster and see whether it is fair to view it as decrying egalitarianism.

Whilst some numbers cannot be given as absolute (there may have been unregistered passenger etc) It is said that the following is a well accepted assessment of the survivors.

200 of the 319 First-Class passengers survived (63%)

117 out of 269 Second-Class passengers survived (43%)

172 out of 699 of the Third-Class passengers survived (25%)

It is hard to resist the thought that in an egalitarian environment the percentages would have been similar for each class.

In light of this it is hard to take seriously Pastor Piper's comment. I remain amazed that he would not consider the wider picture before trying to attack egalitarianism in such a fashion.

Egalitarianism is not just a moment to allow women to find equality with men but also a valuable force that has allowed for the possibility that class will not be the currency by which people, including Pastor Piper, will be judged.

- Posted using BlogPress from my iPhone

John Piper using a Titanic Iceberg to Sink Egalitarianism

In a recent, Tweet Pastor John Piper (@johnpiper), made the following comment:

'When the Titanic sank 20% of the men and 74% of the women survived. That profound virtue was not nurtured by egalitarianism.'

I could comment on the ludicrous nature of his logic or the lack of sensitivity in using the death of so many people as a parable for his theology. But I won't.

I was trying to think of a theological argument to make but I feel weary by the very fact that he feels comfortable reducing the complementarian/egalitarian debate to the construction of such a feeble argument.

If I, a fully signed up egalitarian, were to adopt a similar approach to that of Pastor Piper, I might be tempted to make the following observation:

If women had been allowed into key positions in the Titanic project I wonder whether:

- They might not have felt the testosterone filled need to call it 'unsinkable'.

- They might not have tried to push the ship too fast to prove how good they were.

- They may not have even hit an iceberg.

But I wouldn't make these points because they have nothing to do with either the sinking of the Titanic or the frailties of the Complementarian position.